I don't understand the mayas.............

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...mentioned that d GUAT campESINOS whom r being actively X-ported from EL PETEN and whom also fit in d ELASTIC definition of INDIGENOUS MAYA r actually an interGENERATIONAL LOT that r only now RETURNING home...If indeed this arguement is proFERRED, 4 xmpl in a COURT of LAW then d CAUSE 4 individual OWNERSHIP would have been DASHED since said semiNOMADIC lifeSTYLE would NOT comPORT with d idea of a FIXED ADDRESS that is really at d HEART of d MAYAN prostration and appeal!!!

...of d MAYAN landGRAB in d SOUTH would ADD an unWANTED layers of comPLICATION 2 an already preCARIOUS situation in that said NOBEL LAURATE could SPIN some CHARISMATIC overtures in d FORM that said INDEGENOUS PPLS do NOT recognize POLITICAL borders AND could or SHOULD be permitted 2 MOVE freely between Bze & Guat...This of course would b NO loss 4 GUAT since they have nothing 2 lose BUT it would b COSTLY 4 us since d GUYs that would b BENEFITING would b GUATEMALANS wearing convenient indigenous MAYAN HATS.

It must b kept in mind that said INDIGENOUS PEOPLES r really REGULAR PEASANTS that r being actively X-ported from GUAT 4 political reasons 2 COLONIZE bze...THIS is of course in not unLIKE d STRATEGEM applied by INDIA 2 KASHMIR prior 2 its uummmm assIMILATION of said counTRY...It is ALSO not unLIKE d strategy applied by d nationalHERO HHMM through his POLITICAL REIGN which of course has been MATCHED in EQUAL parts by BOTH political PARTIES in d WAKE of d DEMISE of said HERO in their commitment 2 WIN at d POLES by any means necessary!!!

I am a Mestizo and all my family are descendants of Mayas, Alright!!
But to come here and try to make the Government of Belize look Bad; as if they are taking their land, then that is what I HATE!

Imagine if the Garifunas, Mestizos, Creoles, Mennonites, and all other enthnic groups would want to do the same thing of Communal Land Rights the whole territory of Belize would have owners. There would not be Protected or Reserved Lands or any Government land for Deserving Belizean.

My Grandfather used to be a Farmer also, and if he wanted a peice of land he would go and apply for a farm land like any other belizean!!

Now the Mayas of the South want to come here and say that because they live in Conejo or other villages in the south that all the land that surrounds then belongs to them, NOW that is what makes me disagree totally with them becasue apart from mayas you have other (Belizeans to the bone) living there.

Every Belizean has a right to land all over Belize from north to south!!
Which make me wonder that the MAYA Leaders are the ones who want more land for them they are becoming Selfish and think that only the Mayas and no other belizean deserve land in the South!

Greg Ch'oc and Cristina Coc are acting as a Hitler wanting no other people around them. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE!! ALL BELIZEAN DESERVE A PIECE OF THIS JEWEL NOT ONLY THE MAYAS!!!

West Side

Don't let the immigration issue detract from the issue of fight for communal rights over the lands in the South. If it is that we have a porous border, then we need to deal with that issue seprately. If the Mayans who are recent migrants are seeking refuge in Belize with the view to permanently settle, then this may not be a bad thing if they are not placing any increased burden on our resources.

...CURVE BALL 4 d W/end...MORE than half of d MAYANS in d quote/unquote HOME LAND area r v/v recent IMMIGRANTS from GUAT...RECENT as in d LAST 10/15 YRS...AND these r NOT individual MAYANS but whole SETTLEMENTs!!!...2 ADD insult 2 inJURY many of these GUYs have COME OVER in last 1 to 3 YRS!!!

i C a RIGOBERTA MENCHU moment coming just WHEN we need it least with Bze/GUAT terrotorial coNUNDRUM gathering momemtum!!!

but I can appreciate their resistance and perhaps this may be one form for them to ensure that GOB does not distribute the Toldeo lands or dereserve the nature reserves and distribute to persons who are not natural inhabitants of the area. I am bothered though by the whole communcal lands concept because the Mayans do not live communally, but to a large extent in individualistic setting where each farmer cultivate their respective plots or milpa. But maybe by acquiring rights communally the Mayan leaders are trying to ensure that they retain control of these communal lands in perpetuity, as opposed to risking indivual title holder selling their lands foreigners. The Mayans down South have no access to bulk capital to invest in any large farming scheme and the risk of them selling their individual lands once they are issued individual titles is therefore very real. The jury in my mind is still out on this communal land rights and I am yet to make up my mind if it indeed the best approach given the conditions down South.
I look to the North and the Northern Mayans have successfully ensured that their leaders distributed lands to them individually and they have held on to their lands, since they were able to latch on to the sugar industry when sugar was king. The South does not have any agroindustry to ensure economic returns to the individual title holders so to avoid alienation of title. If alienation takes place en masseby individual title holders, lands will be tied up in foreign hands, thereby possibly depriving Mayans of their subsistence cultivation and lifestyle.

Listening to the news last night made me ask more questions. If 300 people signed the petition in San Pedro Columbia then they have the majority. Mr. Choc said that there is little over 1000 people living in the village and knowing that mayas have roughly "on average 10 children" then this is equivalent to how much families? Answer is 110-130 families right? Ok. then Assuming each family has 2-3 adults then it is equivalent to roughly 350-400 people who can sign for a petition. This is more than enough evidence for one small village that they do not support Greg and Christina. Who are you really fighting for? ... just leave us alone we were better off before you came here to interfere with our daily lives.

...d MAYAs perfectly...These guys r no iDIOTS...They have realized that this whole INDIGEOUS RIGHTS argument will garner SUPPORT & SYMPATHY from FAR and near...They also understand that d ARITHMETIC of d situation is in their favour in as far as d 51/49 RED/BLUE politics of Bze goes: They know that in d end d POLITICAL SYSTEM will NOT accommodate d LEGAL wRITES of a mrJOHNSON against d CAST of 10,000 SCREAMING mayans!!!

These FELLOWs also understand that as long as U can keep d argument conFINED 2 Toledo, or at least d deep SOUTH, u can avoid d DIFFICULT questions that would bring in its wake a NATIONAL DEBATE on d issue...4 XMPL if we accommodate d ARGUMENT that mrJOHNSONS land does, or should, FALL under those arrangements that would make it VULNERABLE 2 communal ACQUISITION, should WE also not ask d QUESTION that if d MAYANs r entitled 2 mrJOHNSONS land on d basis of some GEOGRAPHICAL determination, should they b allowed 2 OWN land in other parts of Bze?...AND if that is d CASE then how far NORTH does d COMMUNAL argument go??? Does it not MAKE my land in belmoGEROGE, or 4 that matter, KINGS PARK also VULNERABLE?!?!

This 'We been here FIRST so we should have unIMPEDED access 2 Ur land' ARGUMENT at d VERY LEAST needs CAREFUL study and an INFORMED response/responses!!!...This MAYAN land issue has implications NOT only 4 TOLEDO but also d ENTIRE Bze and as such needs NATIONAL POLICY intervention(s)!!!

i WILL close on this matter this morning by saying BEWARE d IMPULSES of BALKANIZATION...AND beware THOSE whom U may b assUMING r inDIGENOUS MAYANs whom TRULY belong on d Bze side of d ADJACENCY ZONE!!!